Nathan Tasker (Photography by Jeremy Cowart 2005)

A Look Inside 'Must Be More'

Editor of About Christian Music, Mark Tulk*, caught up with Nathan Tasker to discuss the recording of his most recent Album, ‘Must Be More’.

Mark Tulk: Nathan Tasker, thanks for your time today! Firstly, congratulations on the release of ‘Must be More’. I’ve been getting a lot out of it -- the production, the words, the arrangements, the musicianship, the whole thing is really well crafted... it’s come together really well. How long did it take to put it all together?

Nathan Tasker: Well it was pretty quick -- surprisingly quick actually. I had about 18 different songs that I’d written -- either completed or in various stages of being completed. And I’d sent over a demo tape to Charlie Peacock, Scott Dente and Richie Biggs who were the team producing the album, and they had listened to the songs and decided which ones they really wanted to work on. When I arrived at the studio in Nashville I then played the songs again to them live, to see how they felt about them in that context. I’m a big believer in the fact that a great song should also sound great with just an acoustic guitar and voice. If it relies on a ‘big production’ to make it work, then it probably isn’t a great song to start with. So over the course of a couple of days the three of us worked out a preliminary list of about eleven songs we really liked, and then I spent three days with Scott Dente making rough charts for the musos who were going to come in the following week.

Mark Tulk: What sort of charts are we talking about? Basic chord charts?

Nathan Tasker: In Nashville some of the session musos work on standard chord charts, others work on a number-based chart. The number system is actually very popular for a lot of players.

Mark Tulk: You mean Dm-G7-C is written as 2-5-1 -- so it’s relative to the key you’re in?

Nathan Tasker: Exactly. I must admit I tend to think more along those lines, so it was actually helpful for me as well. But we tried to do some initial arranging of the songs as we charted them just to see whether there were bits that needed to be added or taken out. I was probably more ruthless on this album than with any previous recording. In the past I’ve been happy for a song to go for five minutes if I felt like it should, whereas these days if someone says to me, ‘look, the pre-chorus is just not necessary’ then I’m more than happy to take it out, if that makes it a stronger song. I don’t feel that my artistic integrity is compromised at all by making those sorts of decisions.

Mark Tulk: Is this the first project you’ve done where you haven’t had a hand in producing it yourself?

Nathan Tasker: It is actually -- except for my first album ‘On That Day’ which was produced by Rob Smith, who’s a great Sydney songwriter and producer. Everything after that album, I produced myself. On my last album, ‘A Look Inside’, I co-produced with Michael McGlynn, -- I was kind of testing the waters to see how that felt. And it was really good, actually. I enjoyed Mike bringing his ideas to the table -- his particular expertise and bent as to what makes a good song. He helped to sharpen and prepare me to hand over the production responsibilities on this album. With ‘Must Be More’, just the street-cred of Charlie and Scott as a team meant that I could completely relax. I already had complete confidence in them and their ability to write and produce great songs. And so it was actually quite easy to sit back and let them critique my work. And that happened quite a bit during the writing process! With ‘Like you Love Me’, the first single to go out, for example, the chorus you hear on that song hadn’t even been written when I got over there. I had written a completely different chorus, but Charlie Peacock said that he didn’t like it, that he didn’t think it was strong enough. And so he sent me away to write a better one.

Mark Tulk: How did you take that?

Nathan Tasker: I was cool about it. I’ve followed Charlie’s music for over the last ten years, and so when Charlie Peacock tells you to go and re-write a chorus part, I’m more that happy to go and write another chorus part... which is cool. I think that’s part of the process. If you gather people around you whom you respect and you’re confident in their abilities, it means you’re more likely to listen to their ideas. You’re also more than likely to take criticisms well, if you trust them. And I had such trust in Charlie and in Scott that I was more than happy to do that chorus again, or to be told that a song wasn’t strong and to go and re-write it.

Mark Tulk: I suppose if you trust someone’s judgement like that you don’t need to stress out about whether you’re making the best decision or not...

Nathan Tasker: Yeah, I really appreciated that on this album. I think in the past, producing something by myself has been a cathartic, almost painful process with the outworking of the ideas. You’ve really only got yourself to trust... and I really liked having the pressure taken off a bit on this album! And being around those guys, I’ve really learned a lot about songwriting and production. It’s invaluable.

Mark Tulk: In what area do you think you were ‘pushed’ the most during this whole process?

Nathan Tasker: I actually found that a lot of it was in songwriting, especially in being able to stand back from a song and approach it objectively. I learnt more about working out a song’s strengths and weaknesses, then capitalising on the strengths and getting rid of the weaknesses. I don’t think I’ve been so good at that process in the past, in that I’ve always written a song and felt that as long as it says what I want it to say then it’s an okay song. Charlie and Scott helped me to see that it’s not only what you say that’s important, but how you say it. That might mean that within a verse you’ve got too many words; that you could say the same thing a bit more succinctly.

Mark Tulk: I notice with the new version of ‘Narrow’ on this album you’ve actually rewritten the words considerably -- did that come out of this refining process?

Nathan Tasker: It did, which was really fantastic. After listening to the original version of ‘Narrow’, both Charlie and Scott said that they felt that it wasn’t very accessible. There was a sense in which I ‘showed my hand’ too early in the song and left nothing up to the imagination; it was almost too black and white -- and by that I don’t mean in its theology, I just mean that the narrative was too obvious. They thought that it shouldn’t have been like that, and I agreed. I’d already had my reservations about the first verse, so when they encouraged me to go away and at least think about re-writing it, I was happy to do so. They really just wanted me to make it a bit more accessible for people. And that’s what I want my music to be. Regardless of what someone may think or believe, I don’t want my music to be offensive because of the way I’ve written it. The thoughts contained in it might be offensive -- the Gospel naturally is in some ways -- but I want to write songs in a way that most people can get something out of them. That’s the goal, at least!

Mark Tulk: The new version does strike me as being somehow ‘tighter’ than the original.

Nathan Tasker: I think on this new album, it’s finally had the chance to be all that it should have been, and I love that!

Mark Tulk: What about the new version of ‘Floating’? What was your thinking behind that?

Nathan Tasker: That again boiled down to the process of working out the strongest songs in the batch. Charlie and Scott both felt that ‘Floating’ was one of the strongest songs... and it had also been a number one single in Australia, which was pretty encouraging. Seeing that we’re trying to pursue a bit more of an international ‘arm’ to what we do, it made sense to have the strongest songs on there, and ‘Floating’ was in that category. I think this version is more ‘together’ than the previous version, and I like that. I like the vibe of it, and especially the electric guitar parts. We had a guy called Tom Bukovac play guitar on it, and he just brought so much to the table -- great sounds and great ideas as well, and the song really showcases that kind of playing.

Mark Tulk: This CD definitely has a much bigger sound -- a pretty huge sound at times... it’s interesting to compare it to your previous CD, ‘A Look Inside’...

Nathan Tasker: It’s also the American sound as well. I actually got an e-mail from a close friend of mine in the UK who’s a brilliant songwriter in his own right... we’ve followed each other’s music for a while, and he said that on this new album he could hear the American in it... a bit more polished, a bit bigger sounding, and he asked me if I was straying away from my ‘Aussieness’. I actually think I am, in that this album is an extension of how I want my music to sound, and there are times where it needs to sound bigger than what I’ve been able to achieve by myself. That’s one of the main reasons why I wanted to work with the guys I did in Nashville. The ‘sound’ of this album is how I’ve always wanted my music to be, I think. It’s not just an attempt to grab at another market, that’s for sure. I’ve worked with many people in the States, like the tracking band and the producers, and I’ve really loved their music. I’ve loved their thoughts on production, their songwriting, and by working with them there’s a chance that my songs will pick up some of that ‘sound’ and be more like how I want them to.

Mark Tulk: If we could return to the actual process of putting the new album together in the studio, what happened after you had come up with the basic charts for the session musos to play?

Nathan Tasker: Well, after we’d spent three days charting, we started working with the band the following Monday. The band consisted of the drummer, the bass player, the electric guitarist, and Charlie played keyboard. So to start with, we played the songs through with just my guitar, following the charts to make sure we all agreed on where they were at. Once we were all happy with the charts, we all took our places in the studio, the drum room or the control room, and then we played through the songs together. As we played them through, everyone would make comments and have a chance to offer something creative to the piece. So, if the drummer, for example, felt that a part was weak, we would try to re-write that bit together. If they felt a chord progression was wrong, then we’d address that together as well. So while we had the general picture of what was happening, we were also kind of painting by numbers -- filling in the blank spaces in the music. It was awesome having that many creative minds working on something together. By the fourth or fifth time we ran through the song, we’d be ready to try a take of it. I was tracking guitar and vocal - only a ‘scratch’ guitar and vocal - but we were definitely attempting to get the drums, bass and electric guitar parts down that day.

Mark Tulk: So you weren’t really overdubbing at this stage -- just tracking the parts together live?

Nathan Tasker: Yeah. There were a couple of times that the guitarist, Tom Bukovac, put down an additional electric guitar part that he’d heard in his head as he’d been playing, and we’d always make time for him to do that. But generally there would only be three or four recorded ‘run-throughs’ before we felt we had the take everyone was happy with. We basically did about two songs a day, so by the end of the week we had all the drums, bass, and electric guitar recorded. And that became the foundation we built everything else on. These musos are guys who are used to being booked for a gig, coming to the studio, getting a chart, playing it through it once, and then doing the recording. They’re used to working like that, which is something I’m not used to. I’m used to spending a lot of time with the band, or really working on stuff, whereas these guys just seemed to know where the song should go, and how to get there. I think my process in the past has been one of discovery -- only after we’ve been with the song for a few days do we finally see where it’s meant to go. And that’s probably why those guys are the top session players and I’m not!

Mark Tulk: How did you go with your vocal and guitar parts?

Nathan Tasker: It came together pretty easily. I knew we were going to get a few days of acoustic guitar tracking, and I had some ideas that I kind of played while we were tracking, to make sure the main electric guitar parts didn’t get in the way of them. Basically a lot of my music is acoustic driven and I wanted that to be a standout feature on the album...songs like ‘Floating’ are indicative of that approach. At the same time I wanted to utilise Scott Dente, who’s one of the top acoustic guitar session players in Nashville. I wanted to hear his thoughts as he helped produce my guitar playing. So it was a bit of a mixture of being prepared, but at the same time being willing to change some things too. But at this stage it was still just a ‘scratch’ vocal and ‘scratch’ guitar, and we knew we could get rid of those parts if we needed to. The most important thing was making sure the drummer, bass player and guitarist were happy.

Mark Tulk: As far as Charlie Peacock’s style as a Producer goes, is he pretty ‘hands on’? How does he like to work?

Nathan Tasker: In the past, Charlie has been known to arrange all the parts himself using a sequencer and sampled sounds -- to stay in charge of everything! But on ‘Must be More’ he was certainly less hands-on than that. He was happy for the band to work out what arrangements they thought were necessary. If he didn’t like something he’d definitely say so, but for the most part he was happy to defer to the band or Scott. That meant that together we all arrived at a result we all liked. I was very keen to make sure that we got something that sounded good, and at the same time capture something that had some passion to it. So I wasn’t that interested in working everything until it was so perfect that we lost everything that made it enjoyable. Charlie is also very good at delegating to people. Charlie really trusted Scott with the production of my acoustic guitar playing, and so Scott and I spent a week together just doing acoustic guitar and we didn’t really see Charlie during that week. So that was really cool. But afterwards he’d listen and offer thoughts about where he felt things should go. Richie Biggs was our engineer in Nashville and he was also fundamental in creating the overall ‘sound’ of the production. He had a lot of thoughts on how to get the best out of the music, and I really appreciated that. Richie would often listen and say,‘This song is not done yet. We need more on there’, or, ‘We need another part here’. He was very good at being able to hear the ‘whole’ project... Even when Richie had done a fairly complete mix, if Charlie suddenly decided that one part of a song was superfluous he would make these last-minute changes to make the song stronger. In the title track he actually took out a whole Pre-Chorus. That’s another thing I’ve learnt -- never think you can’t change things around, even when a song has finished being arranged and tracked. That’s one of the beautiful things about the digital domain that we work in!

Mark Tulk: It may be hard to pinpoint just one, but is there a particular highlight that stands out for you during the making of this album?

Nathan Tasker: I’m a big believer in the fact that good music, or good art comes out of community. So one of the things that does stand out was working with people I enjoyed being around -- especially as I loved their artistic ability as well as their friendship. Spending time with Scott, Richie and Charlie meant that we started to form a really great friendship, a great sort of ‘community’ together. And anyone that we got to track with us came into that environment -- they weren’t just a paid session player that came in, did their thing and left, but they entered into this almost ‘family’ type vibe, where we spent time hanging out, chatting about all different things, and I think the album benefits greatly from that. And obviously one of the highlights was being able to work with people who are just at the top of their field -- it was just such an inspiring thing to spend time with people who you know the next day will get rung up by Keith Urban to go and play with him! Charlie’s massively humble about it all, but it’s still impressive to walk into a place where someone has won a Grammy award, had platinum albums...it’s pretty huge. They all had so much humility and integrity, too. It’s actually helped to define me, I think, and also put me in my place! It made me think really seriously about what it is I want to achieve through my art. Is it just to get some kind of accolade, or is there something bigger at work there...you know, those sorts of questions. Well, those guys really modelled that balance for me between excellence and achievement with real humility.

Mark Tulk: That raises an interesting point... What would you say keeps you doing what you’re doing? What drives you, what keeps you focussed in your art?

Nathan Tasker: Honestly I think it’s striving to offer others creative art that is full of truth and excellence. That’s been my motto for the last few years. And I’m not saying that my stuff is necessarily the most excellent stuff out there -- I don’t think that’s the case -- but hopefully when people listen to it they hear someone who’s struggled with the truth, who wants to express that as clearly and as honestly as they can, and who has worked really hard at creating something of excellence. I think that if this album in any way encourages people, brings them enjoyment, points them to something bigger than me, then I’ll be so happy with that... that would just be the best thing to be thankful for.

Mark Tulk: How do you see your role as a Christian musician fitting into mainstream, non-Christian society?

Nathan Tasker: I write songs that are specifically Christian, in that they aren’t hidden -- I want the truth to be as plain as I can sing it, because I don’t want people walking away saying ‘I think he means this...’ But that means that I’ve been ‘branded’ within the Christian sub-culture and sometimes this sub-culture has an almost ghetto mentality. I don’t really like that, but it’s hard to break out of. I feel that if you’re really honest with people and if you try to sing with integrity and do it excellently as well, then what you should be doing is being counter-cultural, not sub-cultural. And I think that’s what God calls us to. He doesn’t call us to make music like everyone else makes it, so that nobody knows we’re Christians. I also don’t feel that He calls us to make music just for the sub-culture. Often he calls us to be creative and to be artistic and to do it counterculturally -- to be in the world but not of the world. I personally think that Christians should be recording the best music, that we should be writing the most honest stuff, that we should be the ones who handle the truth the best. I feel that God calls us to nothing less than that. And I feel we should be doing all of that with excellence as well. So that’s how I see myself -- I would hope that I could play a number of my songs anywhere around Australia or the world, to any number of people and hopefully they would all be able to listen to it and get something out of it. That’s my goal, and unfortunately in our world we love to put people in boxes so we have that dichotomy of secular and spiritual, but when I read the Bible I see that God has his finger on every single part of this life and this world and I want to live a Christian life that shows that to be true.

Mark Tulk: That idea comes through to me in your song ‘Witness’. ‘I want to stand out in the crowd, be unafraid to shout it out...’ Being boldly Christian, proud of it and not having to apologise for your position...

Nathan Tasker: Yeah, there isn’t a person I know who finds it that hard to be salt amongst the salty people. God just doesn’t call us to that, to be salty on Sunday and then to be unsalty on Monday. He calls us to be salt where it’s needed. To counter the effects of sin, to preserve the truth, and to be light in the darkness. I feel that we should be making sure that we shine our light in the dark, that’s the goal. And I’m still working out how that works within my art. My songs get played on Christian radio, and I’m so thankful for that, but they may never get played on mainstream radio, and that’s a shame. I’m all for songs where people have been very creative and used analogy, but if you’ve deliberately watered something down in order to attain some kind of acceptance, I’m personally not into that, and you know, life is too short to live like that.

Mark Tulk: What about the ‘ministry’ side of what you do. Are you connected with a church that is supportive of your work?

Nathan Tasker: We’re actually just about to start at a new church. One of my very close friends is an assistant pastor at a church in Sydney, and he’s really keen to support us, pray for us, and to make sure that he sends us out. And for me, my art is about communicating to people, it is about ministering to them, so I want to be at a church, where, if we’re not there on a Sunday ‘cause we’re playing somewhere in Australia, that they will actually know that and will pray for us.

Mark Tulk: And in conclusion, if you were to offer up-and-coming Christian musicians in Australia any advice regarding their role in society, what would it be?

Nathan Tasker: I often refer to Michael Card who’s written a book called ‘Scribbling in the Sand’ and it’s all about the creative arts and what it means to be a Christian in the creative arts. And I think that book is a ‘must-read’ for anyone doing anything creative as a Christian. I also think that truth and excellence are really worth striving for. This world is a world full of untruth and I think we need to be people who, through our creative arts, show the truth -- in fact it should be natural, almost second nature to us. And also excellence... This world, probably like me, when they hear that something’s Christian, they expect it to be average. Now that shouldn’t be what’s happening. When something’s Christian, it should be good or at least it should be striving for excellence, and that’s something I would encourage anyone in the creative arts to do. It could be as simple as changing your guitar strings before you do a recording...!

Mark Tulk: Honour God in all that we do...

Nathan Tasker: Exactly! Go beyond yourself. There’s nothing wrong with coming out of your comfort zone in order to do something that’s worthwhile, that brings God glory. Again, we’re dealing with a wisdom issue here, I don’t want to say anything as though it’s a hard and fast rule, but it’s worth pursuing working out what the tension is for you as a creative artist, and then gathering people around you who will be honest with you and tell you ‘that’s great, you’re on the right path’ or ‘that song isn’t good’, or ‘that part isn’t great’. You need people who can help shape you, people you can trust. Again, that idea that great art is born out of community. So, get yourself in a community, make sure you are with people who can inspire and encourage you, that’d be my other bit of advice.

Mark Tulk: Thanks so much for your time today!

Nathan Tasker: Thank you. Great to talk.

www.nathantasker.com/

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[*Mark Tulk is Editor of About Christian Music and President of Melbourne-based Non-Profit Independent Record Label, Small House Records.]